Opinions from real artists

[Fox]

H'okay. Here's the link: www.rcacomics.net/katarizo

Figured I'd re-post this..since I started back on it, with some revamped art.(seriously..looking back on the original strips, it's just..eye-burning...) So here's the deal: You guys know more about webcomics than I do. I'd like to give it all I got. So tell me, is there anything I should improve? Layout, pages, art, dialog bubbles....whatever ya' spot that I could fix.

I'm starting back on RCA in a couple weeks, and I'm planning on starting the Crash comic, along with Alternate Reality. I'm just doing Katarizo right now to get used to it..so if you see anything that I could add/improve on, lemme know. :3

[bloodreaper]

Disclaimer: This entity may or may not be considered a real artist. Heed it's advice at your own peril. Really, I'm more of a writer than a n artist.Possible side effects of this advice include, but are not limited to, Limited color palettes, arbitrarily restricted writing for mass appeal, artist overload, and uninteresting backgrounds.

Okay, so there are no actual comics in RCA, just a teaser strip, right?

There's two guys, breaking the fourth wall. X-Box hat and Nintendo T-shirt are in evidence. Will a PS3 character be appearing, and will their platforms of choice be a feature in the plot? If the shirts are just free advertising, to establish personality and tie them into a particular culture, that's good, but going into gamer jokes too soon can get you pigeonholed, if you aren't planning to make an actual gamer comic.

The predominance of dark colors and the stark white background make the expressions hard to see, especially in the long shots where they're just two dots and a curvy line. A background field in any other color would offset this, but re-balancing the palette so the black and blue are easily differentiated would probably be a more versatile, long-term solution.

On the plus side, the characters are visually interesting, without excessive complexity. Also, the joke is tired, but still pretty funny, if you haven't heard it before.

For Katarizo:

In the first strip, I see more colors muting each other. The browns and blacks in the first scene make it seem darker and harder to see than the establishing shot makes me feel it should be. Perhaps more translucency in the shading layers would let us see into the shadows, without making them go away altogether.

Strip two: Ooh, the hard edged light looks nice. It seems a little rushed, particularly in the second panel.

The shopkeeper's dialog feels awkward, like he's somehow trying to squeeze plot exposition into small talk, about small town economics. When selling luxury goods, it's important to convince customers who find your selection anemic that you've got great stuff, if they'd just look a little closer, you've got what she needs, not tell them that your other walk-ins said the same thing. Maybe put things you want to tell the audience, but would be unwieldy/impractical in dialog in thought bubbles?

Strip 3:

Perhaps I'm over-analyzing, but the first two panels could have been blocked better. The ever popular comic writer's adage "Show; don't tell." comes to mind.

Using some form of agitrons/motion effects to convey him swiping the gem conveys the act of the theft without the reader needing to think back to where the gem was at the end of the previous update. It also eliminates the need for the "Gotcha!" exclamation, which seems out of place, since he's hiding. Again, if he shouldn't actually say it, we can just see him think it, unless that kind of omniscience breaks the reader/writer dynamic you're building.

Putting the theft and the jeweler's first statement in the same panel, so that we see the gem stolen right from under his hand (and strip 2 seems to imply that's how it went down), as he says that, would be both amusing and easier to follow.

3/4 clearly isn't your best perspective for muzzles. You might want to put some extra practice into those, as the full face, and profile shots are already okay.

"Simple emerald"? In what world do jeweler's talk like that? It's always a "radiantly burning, precious, viridian jewel, imported from distant Ethiopistan" or some such. No wonder he's going out of business. This guy couldn't sell a flamethrower to a goblin.


Page 4:
"Show; don't tell." The art for this one is very good, and the actual exchange of the gem conveys itself well, but the writing fells like somebody has been squeezing exposition into it again. Most of that exposition is actually, quite good, and fit's nicely, but towards the end we get rather more than we should, and it highlights just how much we've already got.

"As Always"? If this is the way they always do it and it's been planned in advance, why does he need to ask? Why did he say "Throw it to me!" instead of "Up here!"? These statements are obviously for the reader's benefit, and don't make sense, when the characters should be saving their breath for fleeing pursuit.

Now, whether Vinny shows up at the river or not, we'll know he was supposed to then, because:

A. He'd arrive without incident, and nobody would be surprised. If you felt like beating the reader over the head with the "planned in advance" point, you could have him be late, which would draw a comment from his ally, but that would make him look less competent, and we're clearly to believe that Vinny knows his trade, so something to the effect of, "You're late! You're never late!" would be in order.

B. Vinny wouldn't show up (this being more likely, since you bothered to tell us where he was going), and his comrade would think/talk/other-form-of-exposition about his failure to arrive, and the need/lack thereof to rescue him. (are they really friends or do they just work together? Would Vinny expect a rescue or know better? Show; don't tell.)

C. Vinny would be captured and then exposit (perhaps internally) about his need to make the rendezvous, to get his cut of the profits. This has been made to work well, as you can squeeze the exposition into his constructing a brilliant escape plan.

or D. When Vinny or his ally deliberately deviates from the plan, the other expresses surprise. This can build to a double cross, a "Save yourself/myself" situation, or a simple change in plans.

Of course this is all secondary to the simple principle that, now that we know where he's going, and what the plan is, we know that isn't how it'll go. If everything was going according to plan, we'd have been allowed to see the plan as it played out, instead of being told in advance. If you're like most writers, you've spoiled that surprise, so we'll understand the actual surprise you have planned for us. Unfortunately, doing so partially spoils that surprise, too. All we need to do is wait to see what goes horribly wrong.

A way around this trap is to show us the usual procedure (provided it's worth seeing) once, and then throw in the disaster next time they try the same trick. Overusing this technique also becomes predicable, since everything works the first time, and nothing does the second, since we saw that already.

Writing is tricky, because it's really all about tricking people, by telling them the truth.

[Dragyn]

As Bloodreaper said, RCA needs a bit higher of contrast within the characters, to counteract the contrast from the background. Not much else to discuss, here.

Katarizo...my first complaint is that, on a 1024x768 screen size, it sticks off by a pixel...just enough to add the scrollbar at the bottom, which makes it seem unnecessarily cluttered. I think all you'd have to do to fix that is shave a bit off the border. I've not used the DIV function (which your site uses) much, but I know you can adjust the position of something by a pixel or two with it, so you might try that, first.

Looking at the Page Source, it's evident you used the Yahoo site builder thing. I don't know much about the generator itself, but I find it interesting that some of it says "Please Remove" on it...You might consider clearing out a bit of the unused code.

Another convention used in code is to put each image on its own line, so it's easier to find your place if you need to change it. I'm guessing you've got a PHP script in there (I'm just viewing the page source, not your actual files, so I can't tell), so your Comic page is switched for you, and the links are updated automatically, but it's still good to be able to see everything easily.

The shading is occasionally a bit darker than the sky seems to imply that it should be. More transparent shading might help with that.

The "What is Katerizo" box is just sort of...there. It doesn't really feel like it fits the rest of the layout. Perhaps you eventually plan on putting more under the comic? Whatever the case, there should probably be something else down there, even if it's just a link or two--to the Belfry or a voting site, or something--so the page isn't off-balanced by the box.

The Archive page...looks like you're probably updating that by hand, am I right?


Oh, I think I'll leave the writing tips to Bloodreaper. They're more his forte, anyway.

[Fox]

Wow. Well..I certainly can't memorize all of that..but I know where to turn when I'm not sure about something. :3

True..I'm not the best storyteller..but it'll get better as more characters and plot arise. It's still kind of in the "prologue" stage right now. Firstly, about the RCA thing. The X-Box & Nintendo things are just saying something about the actual people the characters were based on, but if it's giving the wrong impression, I can change 'em. They're only side characters, anyway. >.>

And now on to Katarizo!
I expected the first few comics to turn out pretty bad(though not nearly as bad as the originals...yeeg...), but I hope to improve over time. I also really should do them in advance so they won't seem so rushed. >.o

As for muzzles: It's true. Muzzles make me frown. :C As to beaks. I've gotten better, compared to when I first started, though. Really....why did you guys let me go on with that? D: (heh..XD)

The jeweler there is supposed to be kind of bad at selling things. You'll find out more about him later.

As for the Uri-Vinny dialog..it was really kind of that "Shall we?"-"After you." type bit. Where you know that's what to do, but the onlookers do not. So yes..that was for the reader's sake.



As for Dragyn's comment:
It's really hard to adjust the comic size to fit all monitor sizes, especially when your's is widescreen..but I'll see what I can do.

I dunno where it says "please remove"...I don't even know what the Page Source is. XD I'll try to find whatever it is, though.

Also..I'm updating everything by hand. Code makes me frown. The "what is" box is temporary..I just haven't gotten around to re-doing it, or putting it where it probably should be. 'Cause I forgot a word or two after I already saved it..so the text is smooshed together. I have some cast pages sketched, maybe after I work on those I'll get to fixing some other things.

Well, thanks for all of that..and I'll try to do everything I can to make it better. :3

[Dragyn]

Well, the code, for this, isn't a big deal, since it's in the comments, and won't actually change anything. It might take a fraction of a second longer to load on a slow connection, but nobody'll even notice, unless they look at the source.

FYI, the Page Source is usually found in the "View" menu drop-down. It seems to be in the "Page" drop down in IE, though. Weird.

As the person with access to the actual files, you'd be better off looking at the actual .html or .php files, since all Page Source shows is that, but with scripts already run.

[bloodreaper]

Sorry, if I dropped too much criticism in one post.

Picking things apart and finding all the cracks and weak points is my primary skill.

[Fox]

Nah. I have a short attention span, & it took all of 4 hours for me to read it all...but it's what I wanted. Criticism is what helps one to improve. :3

[bloodreaper]

Glad to know my work was apreciated ... eventually.

One last peice of general advice. Avoid the "Wall of text", it makes people's eyes hurt, and not every one can read fast.

Not that anyone here would need that advice.

<---------guilty

[Dragyn]

*snrk*

Even I am guilty...

Occasionally...

[Gryphor]

I think it is a great start and you should continue

[bloodreaper]

I am back with more, overly verbose criticism! I can't believe I still haven't done this!

More paragraph breaks should alleviate eyestrain, and make it easier to find your place, when referring to this post, or simply picking up where you left off.

I know it's bloody long, but I want to get this done while it's on my mind.

I left off at page 4 last time, so we start at page 5.

Page 5:

A) Where is his watch? He's looking at it, but I don't see it.

B) This is the first time we see Vinny on his surfer. It's be nice to have the camera a little further back, so we can get a look at this thing, or even know what's going on without having to look at the next page.
YC) The *Kersplash*overlaps the lineart on his pants leg, especially with the "S". I'd recommend putting a light blue layer behind the right half of the word, but I know you don't use layers. I suppose you could just paint some blue over the picture and the type the words over the top, but I wouldn't do that without the ability to change the color, or remove the sound bubble altogether, since you never know what it looks like until you actually see it.

Page 6:

A)Talking heads, with motion blur!

It's a bit done, but it's done because it works. Putting one of these in here and there can break things up, especially if you don't want to show what the characters see, or simply don't want to draw a lot of background, but overusing this tactic can lead to a comic that feels bland and visually unappealing. Varied expressions and camera angles, like you have here, will get you more mileage out of this technique.

B)The waterfall. I didn't need to turn the page to know what they were talking about. It's always a waterfall. They we're going to have one of these in The Phantom Menace, but it got relegated to the deleted scenes, because everyone has already seen it. Still, It's good to get these stock situations out of the way early, before the plot picks up, and so we can see how your characters get themselves in/out of it. Even the most cliche' element becomes novel if your characters react to it in a novel or telling way.

Uri berating Vincent for his foolishness, even while rescuing him, is actually sort of endearing.

Page 7:

Remember how we don't need to see the waterfall to know it's there? It's still a good idea to let us see it, before the actual rescue. You could have pulled out a crocodile, just to change things up, and subvert the reader's assumptions, and the reader likes to feel that his assumptions are vindicated, at least a much as he likes being surprised with an unexpected twist. That's why detective stories got so popular; even when you;re wrong, you still get something out of it.

The backgrounds are nice. Impressionistic and quick, but clearly sweeping vistas. There's a nice sensation of depth and altitude.

How did he not hear a waterfall that large? The things are bloody loud.

Page 8: The trees are so much closer, and it's getting dark now, so it took me a second to realize they weren't indoors. --like a cozy hobbit hole, sort of lair.

Page 9: Plot exposition told through well characterized dialog: Quintessential, but so oft forgotten that it gets you a cookie.

While it's nice that we can see how comfortable these friends are talking to each other, one wonders how Vincent can tolerate Uri's constant insults. If they bantered a bit, it would seem like that was there dynamic, but as is, it seems like Uri is trying to express his dissatisfaction with the state of affairs (Vincents recklessness) and getting louder and more insistent the more he's ignored.

If things continue along this vein forever, it'll just be the way they are, but if either member gets irritated with the other's flaw things will suddenly seem a lot less relaxed. It's only page nine and the reader is still feeling out this group's dynamics. Now is the time to establish who these guys are and how their related.

It's hard to imagine these guys putting up with each other as anything other than brothers or co-workers in a very dangerous profession. Since they are clearly not the former, and definitely the latter, that fits, but new additions to the gang would likely find such an arrangement intolerable, and wonder why the other two stay together. A fellow thief you can trust is a rare commodity, worth putting up with a lot for. Trusting new thieves is difficult and unwise.

Page 10: Back at the waterfall, someone finds the surfer. Really? Right there at the waterfall; not 100 miles downstream? Seemed like a faster river than that. Plus, one wonders how come Vincent couldn't find it.

V. Kitarizo is a well known thief, and he writes his name and an if-found address on his surfboard, just in case it gets turned in to the police lost-and-found. If Uri wasn't clearly the brains of the outfit, I might say that strained credulity. As is, I can't expect Uri will be glad to have to two random people show up at his "hidden" lair.

Page 11: No honor among scavengers?

Should the speech balloons in the last panel be the other way around, so his bubble is above hers? Her statement makes more sense that way.

Page 12: Is the spotted guy a fence or a gang member?

Jewelry store guy returns! --with a name! --and he knows where Vincent lives... How have the cops not learned about this place? Everyone else seems to know.

Page 13: Being a jewelry salesman in a town where the only interest in jewels is from bandits, is a very good reason to pick up shop and leave town. One wonders why Vince is so bent on staying in Hatirr (did he grow up here, or is this just where all his friends are?), and why he expects none of his friends to have to more in these hard economic times. Then, he is fool in this comic, so whatever.

Page 14: Pot calling the kettle black? Uri's one to complain about other people being argumentative, but then Vince never talks back when he corrects him.

Comedy feathers! Maybe would have been better to have the darker one further up, and put a lighter one down low, for better contrast, but this is fine.

**Hitting next, from 14 takes me to latest, but there's a separate page 15 before that, that can be reached by clicking back, on the main page. You might want to figure out what's wrong with that link.

Page 15: Dude doesn't trust free stuff, or he doesn't trust that type of gryphon, or what? Maybe he just likes to do his own mechanical work, but that seems like something he would want to brag about, not get defensive over. Don't tell us, it's clearly a question you intend the reader to ponder.

Somehow, I don't think these two are going to be so easy to get rid of. They have names and had a whole strip to themselves, out of 15. I can think of no other reason to press the attack, but maybe there's more than meets the eye.

Is Vince's reputation higher than his intelligence would imply?

Page 16:

The plot continues to unroll, slowly but steadily. I have nothing to add to this one. Well done.

End review! I'm all caught up.

I gotta start remembering to both check and comment on this, if only to make sure you keep making them, so I can find out where all this is going.

Plus, it's pretty good, and shows improvement and promise. That's rare in webcomics, today.

[Dragyn]

Huh...

Hadn't even checked back since I last looked in this thread. Oops...

Good to see that you've reorganized things. I do prefer the "What is" section having a page all its own.

The "Archives" page has gotten a bit behind, wouldn't you say? The most recent page listed is page 12. Also, it took me a bit to realize that the << was a seperate link from the Archives, so you might consider putting a space between them.

(If you need it, the HTML code for a space character is   and can be placed consecutively for multiple spaces-useful for spacing things out in a line)

Artwise, I like the style you're getting with Katarizo. As Blood said, you're getting a lot better, really fast--a rare thing in webcomics. I will admit it probably has something (ok, a lot) to do with the sheer mass of what you draw, but that's not a bad thing.

Keep it up.

[Fox]

Heh..thanks.

~edits~ Just read Blood's review. xP I missed it, somehow. How? I'm not sure.

There's really not much of a law enforement in Hat'irr, so the "lair" itself isn't much of a secret one. The whole town is slowly deserting, anyway.

As for the surfer..it wasn't really found at the falls, just near it. Plus I wanted an excuse to actually draw it. x3

I've been trying to watch myself with the speech bubbles, too..but since comic work can go through up to the hours of 2am, I slip up every now & then. >.<

Most of the pages and links will have to wait to get fixed. Something happened with SiteBuilder, a while back, and it just kinda went "Huh. I think I'll crash & delete all of Hannah's file, today!". Needless to say, I haven't had the time to re-order everything...>.<

On a side note...I'm working with new fonts. So those are subject to change, until I find one I can settle on. (something distinct, but not hard-to-read)

[Dragyn]

Fonts, the eternal dilemma. I've found a few I like at Blambot, but you'll note I still change them out from time to time.

[Fox]

Old thread is old.

Um...working on the first, official chapter..and had a few site-revamps. (that I'm still actually working on..)

I think Kheros is sneaking about..